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Lost: Enter 77

Wow, zelda_zee's fic Fallen was the perfect thing to read before this ep!



So, was that the same cat? (Like Kate's black horse, Sayid's island spirit animal is a kitty!) And was Sayid telling the truth or just lying to save his own skin?

Sayid's backstory was excellent. The island stuff was kind of tense and seeing Sayid in action and being smart was great. But then again do I care about the Dharma vs. Others stuff? Do I care about whether they had a submarine? NO, I DO NOT. At least there's one less Other now. Maybe they can keep plugging each other in the chest?

I think Locke has some computer-game-addiction problems.

Aha, finally, explosions! Except that has nothing to do with saving Jack. Dammit, I wanted them to be bombing the Others compound to kingdom come!

Seems like one of the first times the episode name comes from the island stuff instead of the backstory.

And sadding Sawyer with a lightweight B-story is always lame. At least it was short.

Also, how does Hurley know that Kate is with Sayid & Locke? Did Desmond forsee it? Island walkie talkies?

Comments

( 26 comments — Leave a comment )
eponine119
Mar. 8th, 2007 07:07 am (UTC)
I think Locke has some computer-game-addiction problems.

I was thinking the same thing.

I was more curious about why Hurley was talking about the hatch and when the sky turned purple as though he was there, when he was right next to Sawyer when that all happened, so why's he telling Sawyer this, again?
halfdutch
Mar. 8th, 2007 07:10 am (UTC)
was more curious about why Hurley was talking about the hatch and when the sky turned purple as though he was there, when he was right next to Sawyer when that all happened, so why's he telling Sawyer this, again?

Ha, good call! Well, at least someone mentioned the hatch being gone. That's been bugging me forever. You'd think they'd be missing their showers and laundry and bunk bed and kitchen and music! And I suppose they thought it was amusing that Sawyer asks Nikki who the hell she is. *groans*
philomel
Mar. 8th, 2007 08:06 am (UTC)
Also, how does Hurley know that Kate is with Sayid & Locke?

Dude, everyone checks in with Hurley. He's like the hall monitor of the Island.


Maybe the kitty made flight 815 crash. *nods* Conspired with the horse.
halfdutch
Mar. 8th, 2007 08:25 am (UTC)
So he was lying when he said he didn't know where Kate was earlier...? Although, techincally, Sawyer asked if he'd seen Kate.

And heh, yep, it's hard to keep track of whether there's more people on the island or more animals. I'm surprised there's still room to move without bumping into one or the other! Although I'm kind of excited for the possibility of Sawyer or someone riding a horse! We know he and Foxy are supposed to be good at that kind of thing in real life.
kools_pad
Mar. 8th, 2007 09:48 am (UTC)
Ouch.

I stop watching the show, get bored enough to watch some of an episode, and get reminded within a few terrible line's, why i stopped watching.

I know you love Sawyer, but he is a lightweight B story. He's only been a really compeling character when he's Sawyer. The Long Con or Confidence Man Sawyer. Not comic-relief-soap opera-Sawyer. I don't know how the writers have turned characters like Locke and Sawyer into these completely one-dimensional cartoon characters. Now Locke says those awful horror movie lines like "Someones out there!" or "I dont know why you died, but Im gonna find out". And Sawyer is the joke of his characters own ambition. An awful romance, horribly written, and has no substance to what the hell is going on anymore.

Locke and Sawyer are almost as disappointing as Lost itself.
arabella_hope
Mar. 8th, 2007 04:38 pm (UTC)
And yet...they're the only reason I watch.

This comment LOSES man. Even if it's a little true.
kools_pad
Mar. 8th, 2007 06:34 pm (UTC)
LOL.

Yes, its true. I was spoiled by Lost. It used to be so good. The characters used to be so good. I think it was all the build up on everything. Everyone thought it was going in some really bizarre ass conclusion kind of way. When it was so weird, that it was good. Like it used to, with the hatch's opening, or Locke losing his ability to walk or Sawyer stealing the guns. But it ended up being very simple and not complicated. Its not the fans fault though, if they lose interest. The writers dug themselves into this corner.

Either way, i know its why you watch. Just like Laura watching for the Jack Show. Or the Jack/Juliet show. lol. Hence all the icons and stuff.
halfdutch
Mar. 8th, 2007 07:02 pm (UTC)
Well, as I was saying below, those of us in fandom, particularly fic writers, have our own inner compasses for these characters that are a lot more true than what they give us on the show. It does suck that they routinely sell out each character's integrity to serve a scene or a joke or some bigger mystery.

Someone recently asked me the one thing I would do to save the show. Well, it's too late to undo all The Others storylines that have made S3 so horribly dull and I do hope by now that D&C have gotten the message that viewers really, really don't want to keep being saddled with new characters all the damn time. So I would say that they should try to be true to the characters. What would they actually DO in a given circumstance? How would they interact, especially given how little time has actually passed? I think putting that first would mean that we're no longer rolling our eyes at some of the stupid, inconsistent things the characters do to sell the big themes. As it is, they've made several characters, yes, even Sawyer, even more of a caricature than he was in the beginning. And that ain't good. Most of the time, I think Josh is able to sell even the lamest dialogue but definitely not always.

Oh, and I'd like to approve casting of Jack's love interests, LOL! Cuz as it stands, I do not approve!
kools_pad
Mar. 8th, 2007 07:26 pm (UTC)
See, i dont think its the "Others" storylines that are ruining the show. Its the writers.

Even the characters you know and love are so horribly written this year. I think the only one that actually got a little better, was Jack. But thats because they actually gave his character a storyline to work with. Sawyer, Locke, Sayid, etc, have really no point of even being there. They handled so many things badly this year, that its impossible to even point at something and say 'thats whats wrong with it'. Its all over the place. Theres no cohesive story, the characters suck, and the new romance angle was possibly their worst decision yet. Becuase they can't write romance. Just like they cannot write women characters. Juliet is the only interesting one, but give it time, they'll fuck her up, just like Kate. And Kate... wow. She is without a doubt, the worst character on that show. And then you have to watch 40% of screentime involving her insultingly stupid love triangle.

I think thats the saddest part, like you said. Its beyond saving. I never thought it would become that bad. I used to be obsessed with that show, and now i find it as annoying as American Idol. Thats bad.

And as far as Jack love-interests? I think Juliet is the least annoying yet. At least Elizabeth Mitchell can match Matthew Fox in acting skills. So they spar better. Evangeline Lilly is terrible as Kate. Kate is supposed to be complex, but all it comes through as is bi-polar or just stupid. So yeah, they have alot of problems all around with the show. But Jack's love interests is one of the last things that needs fixing.
halfdutch
Mar. 8th, 2007 07:43 pm (UTC)
Sorry, but I loathe Juliet almost as much as I despised Ana Lucia. I think it's largely how they just plopped them both down in front of the camera and went "HERE, now we just know you're going to LOVE them" and then it's almost nothing BUT them for episodes and episodes on end. Now, take Alex (not that I want to ship her with anyone) but she remains intriguing because they have not been shoving her down our throats but left a lot more to the imagination. I really resent how they try to drum up these contrived romances and how that make that such a top priority. That and I'm just really allergic to new characters, apart from Desmond.

And I've always liked the love triangle between Jack, Kate and Sawyer. It felt organic to me and I've always thought Kate and Sawyer had great chemistry. And I realize that TV triangles necessarily have a lot of back and forth but these last few eps were kind of the final straw. Kate *is* bipolar the way they write her. I've always blamed it on the writing because I kind of need Kate. She's just about the only female on the island I can stand and that's not without a lot of effort on my part! Evi, as a person, drives me insane because she's always mouthing off and sounding like a spoiled brat. And she's definitely not the world's best actress.

I actually used to like Elizabeth Mitchell a lot but the way she does nothing but stand there and smirk really got on my nerves. And that they were forcing this romance so hard with all the parallel "reluctant leader" stuff, well, that just isn't working for me at all.

And wow, I haven't really felt the Jack love that much this season. In fact, I was convinced they were trying to get us to hate him with that season opener. First they turn him into a stalker then his last episode was possibly the worst Lost episode ever. Definitely the worst-written. I would have loved to see him having a dark, decadent backstory in Thailand but what was got was such utter nonsense. It's like they can only give us crying!Jack or angry!Jack and I get tired of that too. In his own way, Jack's just as limited a character as the rest of them, and that makes me sad. Yes, we saw him being lighthearted in Thailand, but that felt really off, if he was supposed to be there trying to "find" himself after a bitter divorce, IMHO. Such a great premise and they totally blew it.

And the more we see of The Others, the less I care. They were so much more interesting when they were just this vague threat. I don't know, that whole storyline does nothing for me at all. I don't really care to know any more about them.

Anyway, yes we don't seem to agree on much about Lost other than that Sawyer is pretty and Jack has nice tats. And there's always 24. ;)
kools_pad
Mar. 8th, 2007 11:01 pm (UTC)
Lol, well agree that Season 1 was good. And that... well, season 1 was good. 2 was pretty good too. And well agree that the show can't be saved.

Can't agree with the fangirl stuff over Jack or Sawyer though, lol. Can we agree that Claire is pretty but stupid?
foxxcub
Mar. 8th, 2007 09:07 pm (UTC)
So you admit that Sawyer's a compelling character and still trash him? Dude, don't trash the character, trash the writers.
kools_pad
Mar. 8th, 2007 10:55 pm (UTC)
He's not a living person. He's what ever the writers make him. They make him compelling as a completely different character. And that character hasn't been around in a long, long time.

The writers make him lame. He's their character. They made him good, then lame.
halfdutch
Mar. 8th, 2007 11:28 pm (UTC)
I guess the difference here is that most of who fic Sawyer on a regular basis think of him separately from what the Lost writers do with him on the show. And, I like to believe, a lot of us write him with a lot more complexity and consistency and depth than we usually get on TV anymore. So, to me, Sawyer the character can exist completely apart from whatever situations they put him in on the series, which yeah, I certainly don't always agree with.

Anyway, maybe that makes no sense from a simple TV-viewing standpoint but since I'm more about Lost fandom than I am about the series at this point, that's how I keep my love for the characters alive. There a lot of characters I've always preferred in fic, and let's face it, in fic you can get as in-depth as you want and not have everything pegged to the big island mysteries and that's often a lot more satisfying.

kools_pad
Mar. 9th, 2007 01:30 am (UTC)
Yeah, i figured it was something of the 'fic kind'. lol.

And i bet some of the fic writers do a much better job than the Lost writers do. I still think its kind of sad how idolized they used to be, and now, are despised. I guess they really hit a fluke of some sort, when the show first started. Or they just lazily used such grand themes, with no real point for them being there. Just to distract you long enough so that they could stall an unbelievably simple plot.

The wire in the ocean that Sayid found in episode 9 of the first season, was for freakin' sonar? Wow. That's how lame the answers are. And thats just an example. They kept a big audience off of the pretense that it was going somewhere huge. But it ended up going no where.

But at least 24 is good. lol. Well, when Marylin and Josh aren't there, its good.
ficangel
Mar. 8th, 2007 02:03 pm (UTC)
And was Sayid telling the truth or just lying to save his own skin?

That was another one of the great parts of the episode for me, because as much as I think that Sayid was telling the truth in the end, I'm not entirely sure. He did tell at least one provable, demonstrable lie, when he said that he would never hurt a woman after we know damned well that he hurt Nadia, so I'm not sure. Sayid is wicked pragmatic when his back's against the wall, so I could definitely be brought around to a combination of saving his own skin plus seeing how badly this woman needed closure and realizing that he hurt a great many other people who were never going to be able to get that closure from him. I'm a bit of a Sayid fangirl after that.

And sadding Sawyer with a lightweight B-story is always lame. At least it was short.

Thank God for the shortness. I don't think the writers realize what they're actually saying about the Lostaways' actual ethical standards when they write these supposedly light subplots.

halfdutch
Mar. 8th, 2007 06:55 pm (UTC)
I can't believe they gave us a scene that could be interpreted either way. Subtlety and ambiguity don't seem to be in their vocabulary any more! At least there was nothing in this about whether Sayid is a Great Man or a Leader! And it was great to see Naveen have some actual scenes to dig into! And you know, just to see him!

And bleah, for the Sawyer story. Relegating him to comic relief is just horribly lame. And it does him such a disservice. Him fretting about Kate does make sense, but what about his supposed best friend being in captivity still? We saw a tiny hint that he does care about Jack but nope, have to get Sawyer back to nicknamin' and being selfish. *sighs* If we didn't have our own fannish subtext and compass for these characters, I think we would all have given up long ago.
demonqueen666
Mar. 8th, 2007 05:21 pm (UTC)
And was Sayid telling the truth or just lying to save his own skin?

You know, at the time I watched it I was sure he was telling the truth, but in retrospect I realized it's more than possible he lied. I almost think that maybe he was doing some transferrance there; that his words to her when he was crying were actually to Nadia. Either way, great scene.

Do I care about whether they had a submarine?

Yes, but don't you see? THE OTHERS ARE FROM PEPPERLAND! It all makes sense now!

At least there's one less Other now. Maybe they can keep plugging each other in the chest?

Dude, seriously. Betwen this and Juliet shooting Danny, I think they're doing a better job taking each other out than the Lostaways are.

...But still, who leaves a perfectly good kitty to the mercy of the jungle like that? GO BACK FOR THE KITTY!
halfdutch
Mar. 8th, 2007 06:50 pm (UTC)
I think the beauty of that scene is it works either way. Wow, ambiguity and subtlety on Lost! Who knew they were still capable of that?

THE OTHERS ARE FROM PEPPERLAND!
LOL! Well, that would make them a lot more interesting!

And if only the Others would all just shoot each other, we could get the show back on track! *dreams on*

Where were they gonna put the kitty? In Sayid's backpack? :)
demonqueen666
Mar. 8th, 2007 07:10 pm (UTC)
Where were they gonna put the kitty? In Sayid's backpack?

...yes? (Oh, that would be adorable...walking through the jungle, with the kitty's head poking out now and again...)
halfdutch
Mar. 8th, 2007 11:42 pm (UTC)
LOL, well they do like their fluff on this show! But I think the kitty had served its metaphoric purpose and is now off to jog someone else's conscience!
foxxcub
Mar. 8th, 2007 06:44 pm (UTC)
You know, now that I think of it, I think all of the Sayid episode titles relate to the action on the island and not the flashback. But that might just be me.

So here's my theory, which is most likely wrong: The Other's aren't "The Hostiles", THE SURVIVORS are the hostiles. Which is interesting if you consider that Locke totally gave away that they found the station.
halfdutch
Mar. 8th, 2007 06:48 pm (UTC)
I think you're right about the titles, it just seems kind of a gyp to Sayid, LOL, that his episode ends up being titled about a computer command!

And that's a good theory (the survivors are the hostiles) but at this point I just don't care about Others-related stuff. At all! I just wish they'd all go *poof* and we'd never have to hear about any of them again. The more I think about all the people (and animals!) on the island, the more ridiculous the whole thing is. However, if the hostiles *are* the survivors, then that's one less indigenous group, at least!
uhzoomzip
Mar. 8th, 2007 08:59 pm (UTC)
seeing Sayid in action and being smart was great.

yes! especially because locke was being so dumb - someone needed to pick up the slack, and sayid totally kicked ass, bullet wound and all.

But then again do I care about the Dharma vs. Others stuff?

see, i kind of do. were there people there when dharma arrived? did the dharma people try their experiments on them, only to be outsmarted by the animal they were studying? or are dharma and the others one and the same? it kind of makes my head spin to think about it, but i like that. :-)

And sadding Sawyer with a lightweight B-story is always lame. At least it was short.

amen to that! just a lame rehashing of the oh-so-awesome poker game. sawyer is overconfident, yeah, i get it.

halfdutch
Mar. 8th, 2007 09:54 pm (UTC)
Sayid was awesome. After how badly he miscalculated that ambush, it was good to see him having the upper hand again.

They've totally lost me with the Dharma/Other stuff. The more we see of The Others, the less interesting they get. And I just find it ridiculous that there've been so many people on the island. And I highly doubt we're going to get any kind of a decent payoff there. Eh. It's not at all why I tune in. I'd be happy if they all just went *poof.*

And ha, I hadn't even thought of the ping pong game as recycling the card game -- and so lamely! Oh man, that was embarrassing. Just screamed "filler" to me but I guess it's like the PBJ scene in "Confidence Man" - they seem to think they need some fluffy filler to offset the dark, angsty stuff.
fosfomifira
Mar. 9th, 2007 03:08 am (UTC)
I missed the submarine being mentioned. Having said that and considering Mikhail was based on Vladivostok, well, maybe he heard the numbers, too? Why would he be based in Vladivostok if he was Army instead of Navy? Not saying that it can't happen - maybe I should stop thinking about it and concentrate on the mad Hunt Of The Red October/Lost connections.

Poor Sawyer, he gets the bad hairdo, to lose at ping pong and his porn (hopefully not used) back. He deserves better.
( 26 comments — Leave a comment )

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