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Watching the repeat of "Dead Man's Blood" and they showed a promo for S2. Can't. Wait! Eeee!

Also, since this is a big Daddy John ep, I had a thought about his treatment of Dean, which led me to why so many people seem to hate Missouri so much.

Now, I know John has his detractors too. He's a lousy father. He's too hard on his boys. He's never there when they need him. He's very tough on them, it's true, and, especially with Dean, he never expresses his affection. Rarely praises him, like in this ep, where he criticizes the condition of the Impala and accuses Dean of letting it rust. How does Dean know that's not really his dad in the finale? Because his dad wouldn't compliment him, he'd chew him out for wasting a bullet from the Colt.

So, my point is that: harsh criticism is what Dean knows as paternal affection. So when Missouri sasses him and rebukes him, might she not, in a way, be expressing her affection in a way she knows he's used to? I've always seen her attitude towards him as affectionate, even if she doesn't mother him like she does Sam. Anyway, I like her. I was surprised to see there's that much enmity towards her, when John Winchester seems to get more of a free pass.


So ... can anyone point me towards some good Kate/Dean or Kate/Dean/Luther fics?


( 8 comments — Leave a comment )
Sep. 8th, 2006 05:19 am (UTC)
The only thing I can think of is that John is their father, that he feels the end sort of justifies the means, he's out there hunting these things and maybe his way is to toughen Dean up for the job or what they have to face or something. Me, I kind of get blinded by John, for some reason though, he does get sort of a free pass from me. All I can say is..thank god for vcr's. I'm having my sister tape SPN while I watch and tape CSI.
Sep. 8th, 2006 05:35 am (UTC)
I do think John felt they had to be his little soldiers and that coddling them was the wrong way to go. Except sometimes you get the idea he forgot they even were boys.

And oh, for me the viewing dilemma is Grey's Anatomy vs. Supernatural! I'm glad we can DL or tape or get to see our other shows at some point! Primetime rival scheduling sucks!
Sep. 8th, 2006 05:39 am (UTC)
I really didn't know, and don't get why, people didn't like Missouri. I did. :) And I have to wonder how Dean would react if he got babied the way Sammy does. I don't think he'd like it, or really know how to handle it.
Sep. 8th, 2006 05:44 am (UTC)
*nod* She's talking to him in a way he understands and is used to, I think. I don't think he'd take to being babied well. The hostility towards her just puzzles me! It would be interesting to see a maternal character attempt to mother him and see a) how Dean reacts and then see b) how fangirls react to that! ;)
Sep. 8th, 2006 01:09 pm (UTC)
No, I don't get why everyone hates Missouri that much, either. Like you said, he's not from a family that shows love in conventional ways (I came from hating Daddy Winchester to going, "Okay, fine, you know what you're doing," in 'Nightmare' when Sam could not at all process the idea of a father acting like he hated his son, because he had no point of reference for it), and also: Dean was coming unglued in 'Home'. Much, much more so than Sam was. He was leaving himself open to demonic infestation ala 'Phantom Traveller' or at best a really, really bad mistake in the middle of a fight, and by needling him Missouri was distracting him from that and keeping him focused. He certainly seemed to bear her no ill-will based upon it.

I don't know of any Kate (Lost OR vampiric)/Luther fics, but guede_mazaka has a Dean/Luther and Luther/Sam series that ends up relatively happily when it's all said and done. Thing is, Luther doesn't enter until the sequel of a fic that goes into Sam/Dean territory, so I did some eye-averting eye-averting in parts, though the Wincest in the sequels themselves is fairly few and far between.

There is a definite shortage of Luther fics. Woe. I don't understand why he died, really, and not just because he was hot. Smart villain! Raising ethical questions that the family cannot immediately answer! Worth keeping around for at least a little while, surely.
Sep. 8th, 2006 11:15 pm (UTC)
Excellent point about Missouri's needling keeping Dean from becoming unglued. Mollycoddling is not what he's used to, while Sam *is* the baby of the family. And I think Dean was slightly taken aback, but not to the point of bearing a grudge. Partly, I think he's so wigged out by the whole psychic thing that for her to be kind of sassing him helps make her more down to earth as well.

And y'know, that's also a great point about Sam not all comprehending the super fucked-up fathering that Max had. John was tough and he was distant and he was disapproving and even negligent but he was never abusive. And some distance could be argued as protectiveness.

No Luther fics! Damn! I guess that's a problem with the villain of the week -- maybe doesn't inspire enough people to get writing. He was such a great character -- and so hot! And I think he would definitely find Kate interesting. ;)

Sep. 8th, 2006 04:35 pm (UTC)
I think that's a really great observation as to the type of affection Dean comprehends. Missouri can sense things and all..I'm certian there was no real cruelty behind her jabs...that's Dean's stability, being told what to do. He's just trained that way.

It's hard to put in all in context, I think - at first it seems like John rushed to the scene when Danny is killed which comes across like, "Why wasn't he so quick to jump when the boys needed him?" - but he does show up in "Home", just doesn't go to them.

At any rate, the whole "How good of a father is John?" debate in my mind still remains unanswered - as odd as it sounds, I don't think we know enough, or I at least haven't really thought about his story as much. But I figure he's this heartbroken figure, set on vengence, doing what he thinks is the best thing for his family while still being selfish and narrow minded in his end goal to kill the demon. Hmm, will think more.
Sep. 8th, 2006 11:21 pm (UTC)
Yep. I think Missouri knew just how to talk to Dean.

As for John, the only real black mark that can't be excused is when he doesn't come or even call when Dean is dying. I'm sure it all has to do with JDW's acting schedule, but that's a pretty serious situation not to even respond to. I agree he's totally got blinders on and sometimes he neglects his boys or doesn't consider them or their feelings (ha! Winchesters and feelings!). He's been so singleminded and selfish about his pursuit of the demon and I think he thinks he did a good enough job that they can handle everything else on their own. And he's mostly trying to keep them out of harm's way by keeping some distance between them. But the not showing up for Dean on his deathbed? Yeah. That one doesn't sit well.
( 8 comments — Leave a comment )


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