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Fandom question

So Lost is my first fandom I've *really* gotten online and obsessed over. Yeah, I *discussed* Buffy, Angel and LOTR, but Lost is the first one I've read or written fic for. So I haven't seen how fic changes in response to a show's canon before. It's probably that initial non-canon pairings (like Jack/Boone, Sawyer/Shannon) get less and less as the canon starts to go in different directions. Like now there's a lot of Locke/Boone stuff because they're inseparable on the show. And I had given up on Sawyer/Shannon before there was even Shannon/Sayid so I doubt I would go back there.

Obviously some people are going to stubbornly stick to their OTPs, like Sawyer/Sayid, and just ignore the show or pick and choose what elements they want to be faithful to. For example, what jaye_voy is doing with "Consideration," where Sawyer went on his boar hunt, but it's still Sayid who comes around to his tent later, not Kate.

But, for those of you who've been doing this a little longer, on previous shows (or books), do some pairings just fall out of favor, never to be revived again? Do other fans hate it when a more or less out-of-date pairing is still being written? And what are your thoughts? Do you prefer fics to keep pace with the changes on a show/book or would you rather flog your OTP and the canon be damned?

Just curious. Thanks!


( 29 comments — Leave a comment )
Mar. 9th, 2005 10:30 pm (UTC)
Hmmm, really good question. In all the fandoms I've been into, it's my experience that it is really just different for everyone. Some people really can't take fanon relationships for some reason - they have to be canon for them to enjoy the fic. Others, love fanon ones so much more that canon, 'cause it's something different.

I, myself, love both. For example, I still love to read Shannon/Sawyer fics when they show up - but, I also know I'm a rare reader that will read almost any pairing if it is written well. I care more about quality, than sticking to my OTP(s). Excellent characterization can make any pairing (or gen fic) really worth my time. I won't read fics that are about my preferred couple, just for that fact alone. They have to be good too, or I'm off to find something better in that fandom, no matter what the subject.

If that makes any sense whatsoever, lol. ;)
Mar. 9th, 2005 11:43 pm (UTC)
I agree, I can't be into something if the writing is abysmal. A good writer can make me like characters I don't really like or am just tired of.

Fic made me like Sayid at a point when I was still mad at him for torturing Sawyer and getting off *scott free!* (Yeah, I know he got tortured too, but none of the other castaways ever cared about what Sayid did. And that upset me. So I love fics where he's more repentant.) And Charlie is often now better written in ficland, too.

I'm open to canon or fanon. It's great to have a jumping-off point and to incorporate new elements, plot points, relationships, etc, from the show. But if something is AU or whatever, I'm good with that too.

BTW: I found "Making Do" thanks to your rec post. THANKS!
Mar. 10th, 2005 12:06 am (UTC)
Exactly. Quality is the most important thing about fic in my eyes. That's why I always have such bad luck surfing around ff.net. For every one awesome fic posted, there's sadly like fifty horrors.

I'm honestly not big on Sayid. Not on the show, and not in fic either. I've read a few Sayid/Sawyer fics, but not enough to ever change my mind about him. (And gah, Charlie is bugging the shit out of me on the show lately. I really need to find some good Charlie fic to fix that a little or something, lol.)

And awww! Making Do is one of absolute favorites ever. It totally made me fall in love with the believablity of Jack/Boone. :)

Mar. 10th, 2005 12:25 am (UTC)
Hee. Someone could make a pot of money charging to beta most of the fics at ff.net. ;->

Charlie bugs me *sooo* much too. Eek. I still write him as a supporting character (sans Claire - it cuts down on the insufferable cuteness factor) and don't mind him popping up here and there but I'm not actively seeking out any Charlie-fic!

Yes, "Making Do" is the best Jack/Boone ever. I also loved "Curious Harp" by carolinecrane Ever read it? V. nice. Some of the first Joone stuff I tried to read had Sawyer as a thug/rapist/stock bad guy and I obviously wasn't into *that! Sigh. Same with Locke/Boone now - again with Sawyer, Would-Be Rapist. No, just no!

Have you read jaye_voy's S/S stuff? That's my favorite because it really explores all their issues in a believable way. But hey, if it's not for you, it's not for you!
Mar. 10th, 2005 01:03 am (UTC)
LOL, I'm not actually actively seeking out Charlie fic either - but maybe if I did I would not, you know, loathe him. Heh. Side-character Charlie is about the only Charlie I can stomach these days - and this is coming from someone who really used to like C/C. Now? Not so much. (I totally need to change my userinfo picture to get them off there, heh.)

I *think* that I have read Curious Harp. The name is familiar and it's in my bookmarks anyway, lol. Then again, I tend to bookmark things and forget to read them. So, I'll double-check to make sure I've read it.

And GAH! Rapist!Sawyer irritates me more than just about anything else. Southern Pervert? Sure. Rapist? Not so much. Rapist!Sawyer, to me, is more OOC than Sweet!Sawyer could ever be. He might be a jackhole from time to time, but that doesn't mean he goes around attempting to rape people in his spare time.

Same thing goes for Asshatty!Jack in Sawyer/Kate fics. I'm a firm believer that you can in fact write fics about one couple, and not make the third party out to be a complete dick in the process to explain your choice. Big pet peeve of mine, and it seems to happen in every fandom that has triangles. Bah. (I think I might do an essay on the topic for _factious actually, lol, it bothers me that much.)

And I'm really not into Locke/Boone. I love Locke gen fic, a lot, but I just don't ship him with anyone on the show.

And I don't think I have read that S/S stuff, but I will certainly give it a try. I'll try just about anything once, fic-wise. You never know what will really strike a cord with you. (Like Jack/Boone - or Jayne/River (Firefly). If you never try it, you'll never know if you're gonna love it. At least that's my philosophy on reading fic. Hee!)
Mar. 10th, 2005 01:34 am (UTC)
I just had to reply with your fab Southern Pervert icon! ;->

Yeah, 1000 times what you said about Rapist!Sawyer being way OOC. It seems to come from people who (surprise) don't like the character and are pimping other pairings. Ditto character assassination on the odd person out in love triangles. It's just a sign of a bad writer to have it all so one-sided. I love the JKS love triangle when it's done well, with all the jealousy, angst, resentment, and hurt feelings. Or even when it's all smutty and happy. But Sawyer trying to rape Kate and Hero!Jack coming to save her? So not my scene! Bleah.

Locke creeps me out. If people write him that way, it's good for a shudder but Locke getting some is not my cup of tea!

Yeah, go check out Jaye's stuff! I think you'll like.

If you never try it, you'll never know if you're gonna love it. At least that's my philosophy on reading fic. Could have a broader application as well. Hee.

Mar. 10th, 2005 01:55 am (UTC)

And exactly. Talented writers can take a triangle and make it so deep and interesting in a million ways, and still lean towards a pairing without totally making the other go OOC to do it.

Hee! I love Hero!Jack as much as anyone, but I completely agree, I don't need him fending off Rapist!Sawyer, like, ever.

And Locke is totally creepy. I don't trust him at all - and that's the way I like my Locke. Creepy.

Heh, it could be applied broader but, I'm way more picky in RL. I learned the hard way, with a mouthful of fried ocra, that sometimes it's better to not try things when your gut instinct says no. Hee!
Mar. 10th, 2005 02:19 am (UTC)
A mouthful of ... (wait for it!) fried okra! Ha. Well, I hated my first beer, my first bite of sushi and my first sip of coffee. Now, I love 'em all. Some things are acquired tastes, like, in my case, slash fanfic! And then there are the times you absolutely need to listen to your gut instinct, like when someone is offering you fried okra. ;->
Mar. 10th, 2005 02:42 am (UTC)
Slash is totally an acquired taste for me too. A few years back, I didn't read it at all, 'cause I didn't see the appeal in the fandoms I was in. Now, here I am, loving some slash pairings so very much!

LMFAO, I was trying to be polite with the okra, lmfao, something I've long past grown out of where trying new food is concerned. Heh. And funny enough, I don't like coffee, beer or seafood in any shape or form, lol! As you've just probably figured out, I'm a very picky eater. Heh.
Mar. 10th, 2005 12:47 am (UTC)
1) Ugh. Super-ditto to the ff.net comment. oh-em-frickin-gee.
2) As many know, I'm completely devoted to Sayid, so I won't go there. This is a slight tangent but my friends are constantly yelling at me for being extra attracted to Muslims as of late. :-/
3) I kinda like the boonegetsrapedbylecheroussawyer fics. I don't know why. I think Saywer is as good a villain as he is a protagonist good-deep-down antihero. Plus it makes for good angsty!Boone, and as much as the kid annoys me sometimes, I do love to see him cry.
Mar. 10th, 2005 01:22 am (UTC)
Well, I can't share your enjoyment of Rapist Sawyer fics. I agree with Crystal, just too OOC for me. Angsty Boone, fine, I just see Locke as more the rapist type. (Shudder) I mean, Sawyer only beat Boone up once - look at the major mindfuck trip Locke is doing to Boone. Complete with bondage! And, btw, has there been any other Top 10 show with canon incest, bondage and torture that isn't a crime or legal drama? Because, just, wow! No wonder the fic writers go to such dark places.
Mar. 10th, 2005 02:45 am (UTC)
Wow, you're right! I didn't realize Lost was so hardcore.
All it needs now is...
Cannibalism. O____o *eyes Locke suspiciously*
Mar. 10th, 2005 01:23 am (UTC)
Aww, it's totally fine to love Sayid. Everybody likes different characters and things, and that's what makes fandom oh so very fun to be a part of. Hell, I love Jack, and in fandom that's certainly not the popular choice, I've found out, hee!

Sawyer can definitely be an awesome villian. I'm just really partial to there having to be a damn good reason for Sawyer (or Jack or Vincent for that matter, heh) to act the way they do in any given fic. It just can't be pulled out of thin air, and still have me enjoy it. But if there's reasoning and a great plot to accompany them into historic asshatty proportions, I'm so game. Dark!Fic can be amazing if the plot is deep and well constructed.
Mar. 10th, 2005 01:41 am (UTC)
2] lol ... My friends mock me for my taste in men all the time. It's not the Moslim thing that gets me (although Arabic men are very attractive to me as a general rule--it's the nose). Really, I have a thing for computer/math wiz types. Oi.

I'll read anything well written. That's all there is to it. I don't care how much sense it makes in the canon. There are so many ways to make things work. I live on Seamus/Bill in Harry Potter, and that pairing probably has the least canonical backing of anything you could possibly think of. I don't think the characters are even aware of each other existence.

You know, I when I get off my ass, I might give a some of these pairings that are losing steam a try. I like a challenge.
Mar. 10th, 2005 01:39 am (UTC)
BTW: Are there any "Die Charlie Die" icons? You'd think so!

Mar. 10th, 2005 02:05 am (UTC)
You know, I've never seen any! There needs to be though, hee! ;)
Mar. 9th, 2005 11:41 pm (UTC)
I'm like you, so I really can't answer this question. I was thinking about HP (are you into HP, BTW?) but there really aren't any canon pairings in that fandom now that I think of it...Anyway, on the same lines as crystalkirk...I don't care about whether a pairing is canon or not, but I like there to be some foundation in the series to make the pairing believable. So Jin/Shannon would just be creepy. Hence my prejudice toward Jack/Boone and Jack/Charlie. The guy's a doctor, people. He heals people. It doesn't mean he loves them. ;) Although I almost feel like the canon gives me enough of canon pairings, so that's why I don't read a lot of C/C or Sayid/Shannon (well, jealousy is also a factor.)
I wrote for Gundam W (an anime) when it was on Cartoon Network and even though it was already finished in the US, a lot of us US newbies didn't know how the series was going to end, so...That fandom is chock-full of slashers anyway, so we pretty much ignored the overt references to a relationship between the main m/f protagonists. ;p
So, yeah. Not really an answer to your question, but...
Mar. 9th, 2005 11:50 pm (UTC)
I like HP but am squicked by underage slash. Cmere1 has lured me into a few but it's not really my thing. If it's the older characters, I'm OK with that but I don't live for it.

I love Jack/Boone! I'm sorry those fics seem to be dying out. Finding "Making Do" just reconfirmed my love for that pairing. That, and a request by someone at my comm for Sawyer/Boone made me wonder if those pairings were a thing of the past since I haven't seen any new fics about them lately. I was feeling nostalgic, I guess! Those were flourishing when I first started reading Lost fic.

Of course any slash pairings have to be fanon and I'm fine with that or we wouldn't have them at all! Still, I'm happiest when things are in character and random folks aren't just hopping into bed for no good reason. Funny you should mention it: there's a Jin/Shannon ref in "Making Do." Ha! She's such a whore. ;->

Mar. 9th, 2005 11:57 pm (UTC)
I am absolutely squicked by underage slash in HP fandom.

I love Jack/Boone too. I think it has standing in canon because of Boone's hero worship and some more than necessary touching in "Confidence Man". I have a love for Sawyer/Boone because I reason it in my head. I can't wrap my head around a pair with no standing unless a fic is extremely well written.
Mar. 10th, 2005 12:50 am (UTC)
Yup, I just read that fic thanks to your reccing, and it's truly spectacular! Thanks thanks!
Mar. 9th, 2005 11:51 pm (UTC)
I'm going to answer two ways for this; my opinion and how I've observed fandom at large.

For me and a few AU fics were one event is changed somehow are interesting. For me it's the thought that that one thing could change everything and that's in life in general, not just fic. For some they could have OTP blinders on.

Like crystalkirk, I'll read any pair in "Lost" fandom that is well written or sparks my interest.

I think that pairings fall out of favor for many reasons like social attention span, exposure, and saturation. I remember long ago "when Angel/Xander was cool" [I say that jokingly because I know that it is someone's OTP]. For the fraction on online users that I associated with, the pairing died off because of overexposure, their own saturation, and the path of the characters in canon. [I'm going to continue using "Buffy" and "Angel" as examples because I know you're familiar with it].

The Spike and Buffy issue split considerably after the attempted rape, which many fans were lost to the pair and many others continued with the pairing.

I don't think other fans should hate it when an out-of-date pairing is still being written because there are many stories yet to be written, there's something to be said for nostalgia, and if they don't want to read it, then it is there choice.

I enjoy reading fics that keep pace with the changes on a show/book because it adds to the "atmosphere" and applicability, but at the same time writing fanfic allows the writer to go places that the show wouldn't go.

I can't really say that I have cemented OTPs because I'm open to many pairing. For me the canon question is answered by taking the writing, enjoyment, and end result into account.
Mar. 10th, 2005 12:12 am (UTC)
I can see how the attempted rape would be a bombshell to Spuffy fics! I wasn't reading them then or now so I can just imagine. I was very into the show and didn't feel the frustration I feel with Lost to fill in the blanks so much. I guess that's what drove me to Lost fandom - frustration! And wishful thinking. We *need* our Lost fics/fix!

For me, I couldn't think of Kate the same way after "Whatever the Case May Be." I was in the middle of writing a multichapter fic called "Happy Birthday," (still in progress!) and my reaction was so strong, I no longer wanted to write from her POV. I just didn't feel sympathetically toward her anymore. So, if you're reading that fic, you know how I dealt with that! Since then, I've recovered and have written at least one pro-Kate Skate fic. But she's been kind of a bitch in my J/K/S stuff (what there is of it.) She's so inconsistent on the show, I think fic writers have great leeway to write her almost any which way. I have a feeling some of my "Kates" are the bitchiest ones out there, though. ;->

And sometimes other fics can make you reassess your take on characters, too, ike foxxcub's "Quid Pro Quo" made me view Jack in a new light and start writing him as more dominant. I may go back to supersensitive Jack but it's good to have things shaken up!

Mar. 10th, 2005 02:15 am (UTC)
I'm a long-time fannish type, and I don't think pairings ever really fall out of favor with fanfic writers. They pick their pairing and will defend it to the death. If the show changes course and partners switch, it usually results in a big war between the old time shippers and the new ones.

Beyond that, I don't know if fans hate it when less trendy couples get written about. I usually love weird pairings and characters anyway, although often that's a sign I'm bored with the canon. I think the less "cool" pairings/characters mostly get ignored except by the small subset that's also into them.

I don't much care what gets written as long as it's good. Although I have to admit I have zero interest in reading Charlie/Claire stories, but thankfully there's plenty of others to choose from. Cool discussion.
Mar. 10th, 2005 02:34 am (UTC)
I've switched my favorite Lost pairings since I got into the fandom, at least the ones I write myself. I guess I get bored or distracted easily or allow myself to be influenced by the show. Sometimes the unusual pairings are the most fun, but nothing wrong with exploring the big, canonical, center-stage ones either. Again, it's all in the writing.

I'm open to all pairings, as long as the characters are in good hands. I did used to read some C/C but I just can't take 'em anymore! Actually, I don't like to ship Charlie with anyone. To me, he's completely non-sexual. Although dustyirish2003 was writing a Charlie-Hurley fic I loved, mostly because a) there was no graphic Charlie-Hurley sex!, and b) it has my favorite Sawyer/Sayid ever in it too. She hasn't finished it though, and Sawyer has been hovering between life and death for three months or so! Ack!
Mar. 10th, 2005 02:59 am (UTC)
I was kinda making sweeping generalizations based on other fandoms, there. I still feel too new and unversed in Lost fandom to know what's going on at all.

You seem to know where all the best stories are! Charlie-Hurley? I gotta check it out.
Mar. 10th, 2005 03:37 am (UTC)
Oh good, I was looking for sweeping generalizations! ;->

Here's that Charlie-Hurley fic. To navigate from chapter to chapter, I suggest going to the ficinabottle archives or to dusty's memories (If they're available. Darn feature is always going down!) And then you can join me in bugging her to finish the story. It seems only one chapter shy of completion. And it's really good!
Mar. 10th, 2005 03:39 am (UTC)
Uh, the link would be helpful, wouldn't it?

Mar. 10th, 2005 02:40 pm (UTC)
Yes and no. So long as the show keeps giving me material to work with, however small (the short, "He's right" from Sayid in reference to Sawyer in "...In Translation"? Hours of happiness) I'll stick fairly stubbornly to the Sawyer/Sayid train. Cheating is basically my antikink, though, so even I have to admit that it's far more difficult with the introduction of Sayid/Shannon. I'm not sure that I ever really let go of my OTPs, so much as sometimes I'm forced to stop writing them because the show's not giving me material any longer and I just can't find a method in which the pairing's plausible. Like, for example, Lindsey/Cordelia over in the 'Angel' fandom. Pretty much my first OTP ever, and I still think of it with the shiny nostalgia of being a puppy in fandom and finding something that just clicked for the first time, and then discovering that there were other people out there who were also hearing that click. Except for a few isolated moments ending in S2, though, it was just no longer plausible. Doesn't mean that I wouldn't squeal and leap all over any writer who could make it work, 'cause the soft spot is still there. It's a delicate balance between hitting the kink spot and maintaining authorial integrity.

And, dude, word to the annoyance at Rapist!Sawyer. Granted, characterization is very, very subjective, but I always want to challenge the writers of such fics to show me the places in canon that they're using as their jumping-off points. Rarely are they ever in existence.
Mar. 10th, 2005 05:44 pm (UTC)
It's a delicate balance between hitting the kink spot and maintaining authorial integrity.

Well said! I always respect fics and authors more if there's some basis for what's going on. Same with movies, whatever. Even if it's on another planet, I like some semblance of reality or integrity within that particular world. Just, you know, consistency.

And thanks for agreeing with me on Rapist!Sawyer being wrong, wrong, wrong. Wow, that bugs me so much!
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