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RPS - squicks and all

I'm a funny creature when it comes to RPS. The only pairing I really want to read is Josh/Foxy and before that I always thought the whole thing was just ... odd. But then I never used to read any fanfic at all, so clearly I'm getting more and more corrupted as time goes on. First the fanfic, then the slash, then the RPS. That was my path down the dark side. ;-D

LOTR RPS is mostly out for me because I don't want to think of the hobbits having sex! (Or the actors who play them, LOL.) That leaves out Monaboyd and Monalilly for me or Dom getting mixed into the Foxshy equation in a sexual way. Especially if Dom ends up on top. Just... no. NO!!

But then I went and wrote a Foxshy fic with Evie (Open) and was prepared for boos and catcalls. But, I'm overwhelmed at the positive reaction to the fic so far! It was inspired by foxxcub's fic Pirates & Eyeliner, which had at least one person asking for an RPS threesome afterward. She said she didn't want to write something like that but I had an idea and I went with it. And then when I showed it to her, her response was "OH NO YOU DIDN'T!" Seems I hit a squick of hers by letting Evie off the hook, in a sense, by imagining she was Kate getting it on with Jack and Sawyer. ;-D Blending RPS and regular fic just was too much. So I thought about it and decided she was right and it was more subtle to just have Evie call Josh "Sawyer" once.

So far I've only had one (anonymous) response to please just leave Evie out of future Foxshy fics. Fair enough! We all have our areas that squick us out. For me, it's mentioning anyone's wife by name or having her appear as a character in the fic. It's one thing to play with the actors but quite another to involve private citizens. That's maybe an odd take on it, but I can't help it! It just ruins all the fantasy for me and I have to stop reading!

So what are your RPS squicks or does the whole concept disgust and horrify you?


( 33 comments — Leave a comment )
Jul. 7th, 2005 07:39 pm (UTC)
I tend to avoid RPF in all of its formats, just because I can't escape the knowledge that there are real people with real lives who might be getting offended at the other end of the telephone line to discover that people are writing them committing cyber-adultery or whatnot. It's not a big deal, and I'm certainly not going to get all uppity and self-righteous on people about it since the HP fandom as a whole seems more likely to draw fanfiction into a spotlight that it doesn't need, but it hamstrings me from reading most of it. With regular fanfiction, what we know is only what the camera shows. What happens afterwards is what the writer says happens.

Just my two cents, and completely colored by personal preferences. If it weren't for this fact I would probably be all over the Foxshy phenomenon, because Matt and Josh certainly aren't shy about PDA.
Jul. 7th, 2005 07:49 pm (UTC)
I blame it all on that one much-iconized photo of Josh and Matt from the Paley festival. That's what started the ball rolling for me, anyway.

I don't get most HP fics anyway, if it involves the minors anyway. That for me is a much bigger squick than making up stuff about real people who are adults at least. And of course I know it's all just make believe. ;-D

Certainly I don't mind if you don't read RPS fics.
Jul. 7th, 2005 08:34 pm (UTC)
See, I don't think there's anything weird in liking RPS of some actors and not others, any more than in characters. And there are actors where I like reading RPS fic about them but don't read fic about their characters, and vice versa. WHY I like RPS about specific characters might be different, but I think...

It possibly simply goes into specific kinks I have, and which 'fit' those better, in roles. More like casting them for a script than anything else. And at some level, certain characteristics can become canon in larger RPS communities, such as in LotRPS. Lostverse RPS is significantly smaller, but even then you can get huge impact from a few fics - sometimes good, sometimes bad.

I have trouble writing/seeing Foxy/Josh and not seeing foxxcub's, because it impacted me on some level. On the other hand, I can obviously picture Foxy himself totally different when I write him with Ian. So it makes no sense on that front.

But I'm with others on the fact that I don't read the bulk of the fic on my flist, and it has nothing to do with the writers, only with my own weird tastes and randomness about when I read fic and what it'll be. Like the fact that I like to write The OC fic but I do not READ OC fic now and still have no desire to whatsoever. And the fic I read most is in fandoms I don't write in and often can't even imagine writing in. My head is a crazy place.
Jul. 7th, 2005 08:42 pm (UTC)
I don't think it's weird to prefer some RPS over others. For me, it's Jack/Sawyer in fic and Foxy/Josh in RPS and I think they complement each other nicely. The RPS stuff, for me, tends to be so light and fun and the show stuff is so angsty.

I mostly just read Lost fic. I've never written fic for any other fandom and I don't see myself doing that anytime soon. I do read outside Lost, like POTC and Without a Trace and occasionally Ats or BtVS or Alias. But mostly it's Lost, Lost, Lost. It's the whole reason I started an LJ in the first place! ;-D

I'm always a bit sad when writers I like start writing for another fandom and abandon Lost because I very likely won't follow them, especially if it's for a show I know nothing about like Battlestar Galactica or Veronica Mars.
Jul. 7th, 2005 09:40 pm (UTC)
I'm glad you wrote this up, because I was thinking about this a lot today, lol! Especially since I've been given GOBS of LOTRiPs recs and feel myself getting sucked into another fandom, albeit a fandom I don't ever see myself writing in. Maybe it's because, on some level, an uber-squick of mine is writing Dom having sex--with ANYONE. And it's not because I don't find him attractive or think it wouldn't be hot, because guh, it can definitely be hot (I read a Dom/Elijah fic yesterday that was so beautiful and poetic in its smut, I was in awe!). It's just...my squick. So I'll let others write him doing the nasty ;p

See, LOTRiPs is a fandom unto itself. It's its own universe. But Lost RPS is, IMO, an extention of the fandom, not its own. I would never recommend to someone to only read Foxshy and never read Jack/Sawyer. THAT'S wrong ;D But conversely, I find I highly enjoy LOTRiPs much, much more than any true LOTR fanfic.

I'm with Mari in that anyone who says RPF is horrible, wrong, disgusting, etc., and then runs off to read what can technically be considered kiddy porn/rape in the HP fandom is a hypocrite. So *I* don't forsake anything in fandom--not even mpreg *shudders*. But hey, to each his own fandom kinks and God bless 'em ;D

And goodness, I'm flattered that some people think my fic is somewhat canon in Foxshy! *blushes like mad*
Jul. 7th, 2005 10:19 pm (UTC)
Interesting - you can read about Dom doing the nasty as long as you're not writing it yourself. I remain squicked on both counts. (Sorry, Dom. I love you, just NOT LIKE THAT.)

LOTR fanfic is tough because it's that whole Tolkien language thing and that's very hard to pull off and not sound idiotic. I am actually almost more squicked on some of the LOTR fic because I grew up with those characters so seeing them get off together is all kinds of wrong. But one of the first fanfics I ever enjoyed was "Debbie Does the Fellowship" (and the Two Towers and the King, natch). That's just so silly it couldn't offend anyone, though, I think.

ITA - I'd rather read adult RPS than underage kiddie stuff, but that's me. Mpreg! Eep! (shudders along with you). Pregnancy at all is a major major squick of mine so writing it all is just ewwww! No thanks, please!

Yep, you started this whole Foxshy thing and you kind of own it. Admit it!
Jul. 7th, 2005 10:36 pm (UTC)
I never read any RPS in any fandoms until Lost...and now LOTR. I thought it would totally squick me, but I find just the opposite. Still don't think I could write RPS, but find my self drawn into it further and further. and really, I'm just a slash whore - give me attractive men having sex with each other, and I'll read it.
Jul. 8th, 2005 01:41 am (UTC)
As long as the men are pretty and the smut is hot, is your motto, eh? ;-D I at least need to know who they are and what the dynamics are, although with RPF 90% of that is all in the writer's head.
(no subject) - lillyjk - Jul. 8th, 2005 01:52 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - halfdutch - Jul. 8th, 2005 01:59 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lillyjk - Jul. 8th, 2005 03:06 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - halfdutch - Jul. 8th, 2005 06:01 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lillyjk - Jul. 8th, 2005 06:09 am (UTC) - Expand
Jul. 7th, 2005 11:03 pm (UTC)
First off this is probably gonna be long and rambly and their may be an element of snark too - sorry am in a exceptionally odd and pretty shit mood at the mo.

ok, on the subject of RPS as a whole - obviously I write it, in fact its about all I write as I actually find it way easier to write than character based fic. BUT to me the "people" I write about are characters anyway - I have absolutely no idea about what they are like in reality (and I certainly do not believe that they are shagging like bunnies as I am afraid to say a certain percentage of people who write this kind of stuff do however much they disclaimer it away) I just use the look of them and what they represent in my mind as the jumping off point, without going into specifics its hard to explain what I mean... I guess there is a certain freedom to working with just an image rather than a clearly defined character as I would be if writing character based fic (the Jack/Sawyer I wrote was hard as hell to do and I had a heck of a lot of prompting from my beta as regards to fixing my characterisation of them).

I don't particularly see it as an invasion but then I suppose that is because of the way I see them in my mind - not real thus it can't hurt. Probably a huge case of self delusion but...

I think the involvement of wives etc can be a step too far in most cases, for example I have a major squick about the involvement of Sean Astin's wife in LoTRips but then I have no problem with Billy's girlfriend being in the mix - guess I'm a hypocrite!

Squick wise - can't stand Orlando fics or Elijah fics, partly due to the way they tend to be written partly cos, well just ew! I have in the past read the occaisional fic involving Elijah and not wanted to scrub my brain with bleach but now I just avoid them like the plague ('cept for crack!fic in which hell, they are a gift!)
Mpregs are just.... wrong. I mean for f**cks sake!
Oh and I cannot abide the mention of peoples children - for example Viggo's son Henry - I think you hit the nail on the head here It's one thing to play with the actors but quite another to involve private citizens.

I hate marriage fics - again it's probably to do with the style of the writing in the ones I have read in the past, but also for some reason I see it as one of those steps too far.

I'm gonna shut up now as I could possibly go on for ever! But I do have to say that I wouldn't read a HP fic if you paid me. Can't do it, don't like it, the characters are children...

sorry if this comes off as ranty, have been watching the news am in big bad mood
Jul. 8th, 2005 01:52 am (UTC)
That was all very well said. It's true, we don't know these actors at all, no matter how much we read about them or watch them in interviews or even those of us who've been lucky enough to meet them. Writing about them is an act of imagination and fiction and it's just because we've fallen in love with what they represent to us.

Still, that said, there are still many many fans who *do* think it's real and an even greater number who think it's dead wrong and we're all sick and should be examined or something. ;-D

It's one of those case-by-case bases with a lot of things - we can't always explain coherently what makes something a squick while something very similar is just fine. Or why we like one actor and not other. It's a matter of taste and instinct and trying to define it can be pointless at times.

And yeah, can I just say again - mpreg - Noooo!
Jul. 8th, 2005 12:00 am (UTC)
I've always avoided reading RPF, and generally thought it crossed some kind of line into wrong. Because they're real people, with real lives that are none of our business.

Now, I don't know. Aside from a very few humorous nonsexual X Files RPF many many years ago, the only real person fic I've read has been Foxshy. And the Foxshy stuff I've read has been really good and well written and so I feel conflicted by enjoying it, even though I've always thought it's wrong. It still kind of icks me out when the guys' wives are referred to -- I think I'd just rather leave them out of it entirely than find some kind of explanation, but that's just me.

Last night I came to some kind of decision or realization that it's basically just fantasy, no different from any other fanfic. No rational person is going to come across a real person story and confuse it with reality, and as such it seems unlikely that these stories are actually going to hurt anyone's feelings or reputation. So I'm mostly fine with it.
Jul. 8th, 2005 01:55 am (UTC)
Welcome to the Dark Side! ;-D

For me, it's total fantasy and I would hope everyone else would feel the same way.

As for wives and other non-celebs being brought in, I don't like that at all. A discreet reference doesn't bother me (and with my latest fic, I felt it was necessary, for once) but usually I'm just "la la la la" about the fact that they're married. Just allow me my little fantasy bubble, please, because too much reality will burst it but good.
Jul. 8th, 2005 01:35 am (UTC)
I love RPS, but I must say the only RPS slash I read or those involving JC Chasez. Especially JC and Justin Timberlake and Orlando Bloom and Viggo Mortenson. :)
Jul. 8th, 2005 01:56 am (UTC)
And that is your right as a fan. ;-) Those pairings are not my cup of tea but I certainly wouldn't rain on your parade!
Jul. 8th, 2005 02:11 am (UTC)
So far I've only had one (anonymous) response to please just leave Evie out of future Foxshy fics. Fair enough!

No, no, no, cause see, fuck that. I fucking hate that. If a reader is reading something and they don't like a particular pairing, or insertation of a character, dude... fuckin' don't read it. Or, if it's good enough to continue to read, say something like "With the exception of Evie (sorry, not a fan), this was really hot... I prefer my Foxshy without Evi, but still.. this was ..." Etc. Because the other shit is telling an author what to do and that really, really pisses me off.

Grr. I'm sorry, that just pisses me off really, really a lot. It's a hot button. It's like hating Kate/Sawyer and then reading a Kate/Sawyer and telling the author not to write Kate/Sawyer! Bullshit, stupid ass, it's what the story was ABOUT. It's right there in the pairing!

Concrit is one thing. "This reads a little sacharine" or "this is stilted" or "this needs more dialogue" or "this needs more prose"... that? Is concrit. Don't put so and so in a fic, that is personal opinion, and... dude. You see a pairing that squicks you in the fucking HEADER? Don't. Read. The. Story.

*Deep breaths.* Okay. LOL. I haven't even read the story yet. It just really pisses me off that some chickenshit (sorry, if you sign it anonymously, you're chicken... or, you don't have an lj, but still...chicken) person decided to tell you to not write something. I just hope it doesn't discourage you from writing that same kind of threesome just because someone might not like it.

Alright. I might be over reacting, because I can't even find the anon comment that sid they didn't like it. So maybe they did say "I prefer Foxshy without Evie but this was great anyway", and that's fine. But it read like they just commented and straight up said that. That's definately a hotbutton for me.

My squick with RPS is the same with regular fics... the nasties. BDSM, rape fic, real life brother incest (Luke Wilson and Owen Wilson have a loooot of bro-slash out there), noncon, etc. But I've pretty much come ot decide that RPS, while it's about the real people, really is still about characters... Caus eyou don't KNOW them, y ou're just inferring what they're like from what they've shown you on tv and in interviews etc.
Jul. 8th, 2005 02:23 am (UTC)
Well, you have an extremely valid point there. It's very annoying to have people read a JKS fic and ask why I would put Jack or Kate in there (oddly, no one who finds their way to my LJ objects to the Sawyer! ;-D) If you are upfront about a pairing in your description and people still read it and then complain, yeah, that is like ordering coffee and then saying you don't really like coffee and why didn't they bring you tea instead.

But ... I've been known to object along those lines, but it was more a question of believabilty for me. Like, I just cannot buy that Dom would top Matt ... ever, under any circumstances! So that ruined that one semi-Foxshy fic for me. And I said so, although I did say what else I liked about the fic, which was really, everything else.

Here's that no-Evie thread, by the way: http://www.livejournal.com/community/foxshy/3201.html

Since it was over at the Foxshy comm, I can understand it, since my fic wasn't pure Foxshy. I was rather nervous about what the reaction would be but so far that's been the only complaint.

For myself, if I don't like something I usually just don't comment. I read a few Locke/Boone fics before I decided it's just not for me. Same with C/C -- now I run the other way when I see those! And for RPS, anything outside Foxshy is just not appealing to me.
Well - (Anonymous) - Jul. 9th, 2005 08:19 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Well - halfdutch - Jul. 10th, 2005 12:52 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Well - kho - Jul. 10th, 2005 10:30 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Well - kho - Jul. 10th, 2005 10:26 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Well - (Anonymous) - Jul. 10th, 2005 09:19 pm (UTC) - Expand
Jul. 8th, 2005 05:33 am (UTC)
First of all, how dare anyone (especially in the rather cowardly format of anonymity) say who or what you should write? None of their business. Writers create what they want to, full stop. I'd almost consider that a challenge. ;)

Ditto what foxx said: Lotrips is a fandom within it's own. And, frankly, there's nothing else like it that I've seen thus far. I couldn't even begin to explain it. Maybe it's had more time to develop than the Lost fandom, but that doesn't seem quite right either. It's its own weird beast. *grins*

I am kind of curious why the hobbit guys squick you. Well, okay, I know you've said you're not interested in anyone under 30, but that only takes care of Dom and Elijah. ;) Nah, I'm not arguing or judging or anything of the sort. I'm just plain curious. Does it include nonsexual fic? It's just rather new to me, the way RPS seems to be the new thing among the Lost fans. It's where I came into fic.: I started with hobbity (some Bean, Viggo, etc. too) RPS, and apparently it clicked, 'cause I'm still reading and writing it years later.

My justification for RPS is this: all writers steal. It's what we do. You observe a quirky person in front of you at the grocery store, and they may show up in something you write. You rip a story from your own life, your significant other's, your sibling's, etc. Sometimes it's subtle, sometimes it's blatant. But every writer, throughout history (and pre-history, in oral tradition) has done so. RPS writers simply reveal their source. ;) True, some writers are clearly deluded and believe their own fiction. But I believe most know that it is just that--fiction. So, the RPS squick that some folks have? I understand it, but I really don't see it as a major problem. If I did, I wouldn't write it. I may love porn, but I still have ethics! ;D

Squicks? I tend to think of myself as generally unsquickable. Maybe if I thought harder about it.... The basics come to mind: deathfic in Lotrips. In Lost fic, it works... but don't kill off the real life pretties. ;) Rape. (I could see that working in Lost fic too, but do I want to read it?) Mpreg--unless it's crack!fic (there was an LOTR RPS mpreg I read once that was a total parody of the subgenre, very funny). There are numerous things I don't like, part of personal preference, but I see those as distinct from full-on squicks.

Jul. 8th, 2005 05:58 am (UTC)
Why no hobbits? Because they're so wee and childlike and ... nonsexual! To me, anyway. Yes, I know they're quite wicked and naughty and encourage all kinds of wicked, naughty thoughts, but they're just not remotely sexy to me.

I like guys who are rugged and manly and with some lines around their eyes. So Orlando doesn't do it for me either. And neither does Viggo to be frank, he's just too hippie-like and softspoken in RL. (ducks). (Although he was very hot in "A Walk On the Moon.") Out of all the LOTR lads I only fancy Sean Bean (that voice - GUH!) and David Wenham, as I was telling themoononastick so now she says she might write them as a pairing and I guess I would read that. Boromir and Faramir are also my favorite characters in the books, so that's part of it too, I think. But I really don't want to mingle sex with my LOTR! Except for the very funny "Debbie Does the Two Towers" series which was just porn-lite.

It's such a fine line for me, what is sexy in RPF and when reality intrudes too much it bursts the little bubble for me. You make a very good point about how writers all borrow from what's around them. You could look at Us Weekly and E! exposes as the same kind of speculation as fanfic, in a way - in the end we don't really know who's gay or why so and so split up and as overexposed as some stars are we don't really know them at all, just their public persona.

I didn't take too much offense to that person's comment just because I posted that fic at the Foxshy comm and it wasn't strictly just Foxshy so I think they had some grounds for objecting. I don't post J/K/S fics at sawyer_jack for the same reason, really. Still, that person didn't have to read it once they saw the pairing. In fact, maybe they didn't read it and just were voicing their displeasure anyway.

Oh well. Everyone else has been so wonderfully positive in the reaction that I can't complain at all. I posted a fic once where the first person wrote something about it being short and boring and pointless and that was like a kick in the gut. But then it got great comments from everyone else who posted and some of them even went and chewed that guy out, so that wasn't so bad either. ;-)

(Is oddly sunny in outlook lately!)
(no subject) - philomel - Jul. 10th, 2005 02:45 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - foxxcub - Jul. 9th, 2005 02:55 am (UTC) - Expand
Jul. 9th, 2005 12:36 pm (UTC)
So glad you brought this up, since you and foxxcub have made me change my opinion on this drastically. :P

The idea of RPS at first completely squicked me, because when I first fell into the BtVS/AtS fandom I stumbled across some RPS that was very dark. Dark is fine, but it squicks me completely when the actors' wives or children are mentioned/or bashed, and I've heard of stories where Nick Brendon's trip to rehab for alcoholism was used a plot device. If that's what people want to read, hey, knock yourself out; but to me it seems an invasion of privacy.

Twincest - UGH. I do NOT want to read about Nick Brendon fucking his twin brother, mmmkay?

I stay away from Buffy RPS completely. I don't want to read about David Boreanaz in 'Entertainment Weekly,' much less in a fic where he's fucking James Marsters eight ways from Sunday. I don't want to know about the Buffy actors AT ALL (Tony Head and AD being two notable exceptions); some of them are jackasses and it ruins the show for me to know too much about what's going on behind the scenes.

I think my problem with the RPS started WAY back in the day with 'The X-Files' where in every fic David Duchovny and Gillian Anderson had teh twu luv and Tea Leoni was a bitch and DD was really the father of GA's daughter.


I'll read Matt and Josh if it's well-done and fairly light-hearted, as yours and foxxcub's were. If there's no bashing of the wives, if it's silly, if it's UST, if it's RST and makes sense in the context of the story, I'll read it - because Matt's and Josh's personalities and the way they seem to really appreciate and enjoy one another lends itself to happy, silly, sexy 'Lost' RPS.

stoney321 had a discussion similar to this one just a few days ago and someone commented that if you liked RPS, you had to like ALL RPS.

Bullshit. That's like saying if I like sci-fi, I have to like ALL sci-fi, and you couldn't pay me enough to watch 'Andromeda.' BLEARGH!

And so, there you go. My fifty cents. :)
Jul. 10th, 2005 12:45 am (UTC)
Sounds like I didn't miss much with the BtVS, Ats and X-Files RPS stuff! I was never into fanfic back in those days anyway so I missed out on *everything.* ;-D

So far Foxshy RPF has been quite light and silly for the most part - it is a nice change of pace from all the angst, although I am not knocking the angst AT ALL. (How could I?) That's part of what makes it so appealing to me, as long as wives get left out and it's not too true to life -- it's fantasy!

And I certainly don't like all RPS! I'm very very picky and Foxshy is a complete anomaly for me! ;-D
(no subject) - foxxcub - Jul. 10th, 2005 02:54 am (UTC) - Expand
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